What a Nightmare!

#1

Hey Axo-Peeps!

I'm suffering a nightmare right now, and when I say nightmare, I really do mean nightmare!

If anyone reading this uses Windows XP or a Raspberry Pi3, then please read this as you might be able to help me. I'm currently preparing for a change of habitat. I'm going to be living mobile, and therefore, off grid. The problem is there's not much space for solar panels, and that's proving to be a real problem for me due to my computing requirements.

I have two desktop PC boxes. Unfortunately, the Windows 7 box is far too power-hungry for me to even consider taking it, but thankfully my Windows XP box is within acceptable power usage. So I decided on taking the XP box with me, that was until I downloaded the Axoloti Patcher and found that it doesn't run on my XP box.

So I decided to use a Raspberry Pi3. It's ideal as far as energy consumption goes, and it uses a linux-based OS as default, so this will be perfect for running the Axo Patcher I thought. But no, again I'm hit with disappointment cause it won't work! I'm running the latest Ubuntu MATE, and it's been fine with everything I've thrown at it so far, using it as a main PC. in fact, I'm even using it right now to browse the forum and post this message!

Everything I need runs on it, but again, everything except for the Axoloti Patcher :disappointed:

Out of the two, I would much rather use my 32-bit XP box for Axoloti because I already have a bunch of other software I use on that system. So if anyone knows how to get it running on XP, via some hack or whatever, then please post a step-by-step for me so that I can give it a try.

If I can't get the patcher running on my XP box (or the RPi3 as a last resort) it looks like I'll have to sell my Axo, cause without the patcher, I can't use it. If anyone knows anything, please help as soon as possible as I've literally spent the last two months of my life trying to get a suitable system prepared. I cannot afford to be buying any more computers, so it needs to work on one of those machines, or that's it, I can't use Axoloti.

Any help appreciated!

#2

Just a thought:

Maybe you could get a car battery for the computers and stuff like that? Shouldn't that provide enough power?

#3

the rPI3 does not have enough cpu/gpu at present to make this viable.
XP doesn't have a recent enough version of Java, so unless you are a developer that's a non-starter.

for a low cost computer option, your best bet would be to look for a cheap Linux solution, there are quite a few low cost single board computers these days - the trick is to get one that is powerful enough to do what you need. (most will run on 9-12 dc)

off-grid .. I'm totally off-grid, as I live on a mountain - but its not a mobile setup :wink:

your probably best running a laptop... easier/more portable due to integrated battery, then you just need to work out charging. (USB batteries are another option)

realistically, being off-grid, its better to have an inverter, so you can have a AC supply, you can get pretty small setups these days, including flexible/foldable solar panels.. but obviously depends upon how much sunlight you get (here in southern Spain its easy :wink:)... to how much you can generate, but trickle charging things like laptops/batteries can help to at least keep them topped up.

the other option you may want to consider, if you have no reliable access to AC, is a small petrol generator, which you could use to charge up your batteries/including laptop when convenient/necessary.

#4

btw: someone I know, was singing the praises of the Udoo x86 recently... a lot more powerful than a rPi.

another thought, your machine running XP, perhaps you could convert this to Linux, tends to work well on older machines, gives them a new lease of life.

#5

@jaffasplaffa
I'll be using deep-cycle leisure batteries, which are better suited to the job than standard car batteries. But even so, the problem is that the amount of power I store in the batteries is dependent on the limited amount of solar panel space I have. After measuring it all up, I was lucky to get 150W of solar space through use of 1x 100W panel and 1x 50W panel :scream:

Unfortunately, 150W isn't much at all, especially when you consider that in the UK, the weather isn't as solar-friendly as, say, Mark gets in Spain. On top of that, there's wasted energy to consider, because the batteries first have to be charged by the solar panels before the inverter can feed off the batteries and supply a mains voltage (wastes energy before even plugging anything in).

Now it's not impossible for me to make a 150W solar system power my power-hungry Windows 7 box, but I'd need to double or maybe even triple-up on the amount of batteries, and that would mean double or triple the expense, and double or triple the charging times in order to strore the energy. I would literally have to let the batteries charge for two, three, maybe even four or five days at a time in order to be able to run the PC for a realistic amount of time in one day.

So it's not impossibe to remedy by the bettery setup, but it's unrealistic, cause it means I'd be going to all that expense just to be able to run the Axo Patcher.

@thetechnobear
Man, what I wouldn't give to live off-grid up a mountain in Southern Spain :wink:

I've thought about settling in Spain, off-grid, when I have the finances, and I still might do that in the future. But for now, the problem with having a small boat suitable for safety on open water, is that they're far from ideal for sticking solar panels on. If I'd bought one of those purpose-made live-aboard river boats then I'd have tons of roof space, but I've had to go for a small boat designed for safety so that I can use it on the open water if/when I need to, so that I can do some 'country hopping' :grin:

I'm gutted to hear about XP not being an option, I was really hoping to make that work. You've given me an idea though, cause I suppose I could try and dual-boot it so that I can run XP and Debian side-by-side on the XP box. I already have tried Debian on that machine before I even owned an Axo, and it works fine, but for some reason I can't even think of, I've not tried dual-booting on it yet.

So if I install 32-bit Debian on my old 32-bit box, would that run the Axoloti patcher?
If the answer is yes, I'll reformat the drive and try setting-up an XP/Debian dual-boot on it!

Regards the Laptop and Udoo, I agree, but it's more cost and I can't afford to keep buying stuff right now, and it means I risk losing the use of programs I have running on my XP system, due to possible incompatibities with laptops (which is very common due to the crappy video cards they usually have).

Anyway, the dual-boot thing sounds good, so please let me know about that, would it work with that configuration?

#6

The built release is for 64bit Linux, but you can build the 32bit version yourself.
This was discussed here:
https://sebiik.github.io/community.axoloti.com.backup/t/axoloti-software-installation-ubuntu-32bit?source_topic_id=3489

It's not hard, though depending upon your Linux knowledge may take a little bit of perseverance;)

#7

In my case that's gonna need a lot of perseverence cause I haven't a clue about what was discussed there. I've never built software before, I always used package managers!

I'll give it try though, cheers Mark.

#8

Maybe there is another option to consider.
Have you tried installing Win7 on the xp unit ?
If this is likely out of the question due to your processor, there are full installations of cut down versions of win7 that you could try, I have one running on an old xp laptop, it works fine, its just very slow when starting up the patcher and compiling a patch to the axo.
You can download the one I use from the following..:sunglasses:

#9

Cheers Gav, and no, never tried that!

Looks good and sounds promising, but should I be installing something on my computer by a company called "Computer Worms"? :yum:

Just to be sure, this is a genuine thing right, not some computer virus prank?

#10

Installing Windows 7 on an XP is theoretically possible but not very practical. Assuming that your XP machine is an older beasty it will probably not have the processign speed etc. to run properly. Worse still. The more recent the Windows software the huger it will be (You have to be aware that it hss to be able to let the NSA in any minute, generate huge amounts of ultimately superflous big data, be open to software ransoming and only then, maybe then be avialable to the actual user).

Even the Windows software itlsef might already outdemand your RAM and harddisk space requirements. In that respect going LInux on such a machine is a much more viable option since Linux is much more compact and thus less demanding on the hardware. Furhtermroe the user interfaces are very equal.

Last year I worked on such a setup which my oldest Son had prepared for me. I found Linux to be less stable then I expected (it can start to gasp for air when you drive it too hard) and some of the general handling solutions (I particularly remember the scrolling tools being absolutely minute when compared to the rest of the grpahics which is awkward on a smaller screen).

Overall it stood up reasonably well, though, although I still switched back to Widnows when a quiker machine became available on the "family dump" (My sons off course always need th latest hardware to play the most mindnumbing games imaginable. One of them is now a virtual truck driver. Ah well, at least he is not regualrly goig on a killing spree like the other one (Deep sigh!).)

I also dream of running away, by the way. I had actually already decided to go to central Italy as soon as we get our pensions paid out. Then the new earthquakes hit the exact region I want to go to (La Marche). Now I am not so sure anymore. (Another very deep sigh!)

Say, why is there no "deep sigh" smiley. I'd kaput it! :slight_smile:

#11

Is it genuin ? not entirely sure, but I spent quite a bit of time reading up on forums, and to check out its popularity etc, and what it came down to, was that there are alot of underpowered pc's out there that are looking for options, I believe this is its main target.
If you use it to run the Axo patcher it may be a solution, but if you intend to use it with other sensative personal data, then maybe you want to avoid it.
They are not the only ones with cut down version of windows etc, you google it up and there is quite a plethora of options, I just went with this one because of its popularity.
:grin:

#12

@Gavin
That's the thing, I need the computer for pretty much everything, not just for Axoloti, so I have to be careful about that stuff. Not only that, I doubt it would work anyway cause my Windows 7 Serial Number is for the 64-bit version, and I doubt the 32-bit version would accept it as a valid serial number. I'm not prepared to run an unlicenced copy either, so for the sake of legality and security, I'll give it a miss.

But thanks for the heads-up about it :sunglasses:

@brasso
I tried Debian on the XP box before I even had an Axoloti, and I'm pleased to say it ran like greased-lighting! The problem though, using it as a main computer, was that I couldn't get it to use the video acceleration of the graphics card. Running Windows XP it has no problem playing video, but using Debian I got completely unacceptable playback rate, for example, when playing DVD. That was literally the only problem with it, and why I had to give up using it. I know the system is capable otherwise it wouldn't work with XP. But I can't find the right driver for it, or possibly I got the right driver, but I can't get the card to 'see it' and make use of it.

I was about to attempt Mark's suggestion last night, but after reading that thread, I know I'm wasting my time on that one, I just don't have the Linux know-how for all that. Normally I wouldn't give-up so easily, but after messing around with Linux installations for the last two months, I know before I even get started that I'm destined to fail that one.

But now for some good news!

The only reason I can't take the Windows 7 box with me is due to it eating too much energy. One of the main reasons for that is it has a 600W PSU where the XP box only has a 300W. So what I intend to do is swap the PSU; basically put the one from the XP box into the Windows 7 box. This does mean extra expense though, because the only reason it has a 600W PSU in the first place is to power the power-hungry graphics card it has. So I started looking at modern video cards and found one that has 4GB on board, powerful graphics processing, and has completely passive cooling. The most inportant thing of all, is that it's power requirements means it would run on the PSU from my XP box!

The only issue I came across when looking in to this, was that the Molex connectors on the XP PSU are different to the SATA power connectors used by the drives in the Windows 7 box. One quick look on eBay sorted that out with a simple Molex to SATA power cable - so I've ordered a couple (for the HD and Blu-ray drives).

So it looks like I'm finally sorted. It's going to mean buying a new graphics card for the Windows 7 box, but as it would bring the machine completely up to date I don't mind that at all - it's actually worth doing being a 64-bit machine. Thankfully, the new graphics cards are Windows 7 compatible as well, so hopefully it should all go without a problem.

Man, I hope so, the lengths axoman will go to for his Axoloti :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

#13

Good stuff.

I do however agree that splititng stuff up is a good idea, providign one has the resources of couise. I do all my actual music work on dedicated hardware (fgro sintanc emultitrackign oan a Roland VS2480 which is a fully integrated best of both worlds). I do al lmy real computer work and safe all my precious stuff on a laptop that is not connected to the internet at all (as far as one can ever be sure odf that nowadays) and I communicate with the outsode world via another computer.

That might sound decadent but a) I built up my reording / instruments setup up over decades and b) having sons that are teenagers the house is full of computers anyway so I tend to use the best available stuff that has been made redundant by them.

#14

I know you were not considering buying any new hardware, but especially for a mobile low power setup I would seriously consider laptops. You were mentioning 600W and 300W for your Windows 7 and XP boxes, respectively; the laptop I'm using right now, a Lenovo Thinkpad T400, runs happily on a 65W power supply, although I usually run it on a 90W as it charges the battery faster if I'm using the machine while charging the battery. A refurbished T400 can be had for around £100 these days, although I would say it might be a bit slow for successfully running Windows 7 nowadays (I use Debian Linux almost exclusively although I do have a dual boot system). Newer laptops seem to use even less power; at least the processor in the T420 I have is rated as using less power than the one in the T400.

When I got my first laptop several years ago it was mostly an experiment as I didn't really have any use for the mobility. But being able to take it with me was more of an advantage than I originally envisaged, and the keyboards of the IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad T-series are possibly the best around when it comes to speed and comfort. For the type of stuff I do I can't imagine going back to a desktop PC ever again. Even my music studio runs on a T500 laptop with a 15" screen.

#15

@brasso
Same here, I try my best to take that apporach to things. I don't always manage it but it's not for lack of trying. I try to keep a separate computer just for the web, and one for audio/video projects etc. One thing for sure is there's no way I can take all my gear with me. Most of the analogue gear will have to be stored in my mothers attic until I can afford a bigger boat (which will probably be never). I'm taking that Amstrad Studio Hi-Fi with me though, I can't live without that!

@ricard
If only it was as easy as just getting a laptop! I'd love to, but it means I'd risk losing the ability to run my CNC properly (or even at all), cause I need 32-bit and a parallel port to run it. And I'd lose the benefit of being able to use my monitor, which I love cause it's a 1080P professionally calibrated unit. Calibration isn't important 90% of the time, but sometimes I do need the accuracy so I'm really thankful I have it. I know it sounds a bit snobbish, but there's no way I can go from using this monitor to the ones they use on laptops. There's laptops with nice displays, I know, but there's not a laptop in the world with a display as good as the one I have.

There's just too much i'd have to give-up using a laptop, even though energy-wise, it would be the ideal solution. It's not as bad as you might think from the size of the PSU though. For example, the 300W PSU in the XP machine, in use, the energy meter says it's using around 90 to 105W - and the higher number is with a DVD playing/spinning. That doesn't include the monitor though, which is surprisingly hungry, and uses just over 30W. But still, for a full-size XP tower system and a pro-grade monitor, a total of around 125W is not bad at all. That's basically why I'm planning to see what happens if I put the XP PSU in the Windows 7 box and buy a more energy efficient graphics card for it.

The Molex to SATA power cables arrived yesterday, so I'll give it a try tomorrow, see how it goes.

#16

Well, there's good news and bad news.

The good news is that there's no problem replacing the PSU with the one from the XP box, and the Molex to SATA cables work exactly as would be expected of such a simple thing. The bad news is that I'm not going to be able to use my CNC on this machine without a lot of extra expenditure.

Not going to happen. I'm not giving-up my XP box which basically has working everything, ideal low power consumption as standard, runs all my software, and works perfect with my CNC, just to be able to use Axoloti. I love my Axo, but I have to draw the line somewhere, and unfortunately, this will have to be it. I've tried seriously hard for over two months to be able to make it work for me, but it's just not meant to be.

I've just asked a question in the "XP Workarounds" thread, it's my only hope now, but if that fails to provide a solution then I might as well just sell the Axo, cause it's of no use to me without the patcher.

#17

What is your CNC setup, and why won't it work ?
I built a cnc at home, currently in pieces being re-built, mine runs off GRBL from an arduino, does not require much power at all, but the steppers do run off a separate PSU, is this where the problem lies ?
:persevere:

#18

A "Persevere" smiley, lol, that's a good one!

Cheers Gav, but I've been "persevering" for over two months trying to get it sorted. Had to finally draw the line somewhere, and that was midnight, Sunday. Axo has to go.

The CNC is one of those Chinese setups you see on eBay (3020T model). Bought a parallel card for the Windows 7 machine, but it won't work because apparently, the software only works in 32-Bit, and even if I installed 32-Bit linux and dual boot, it still won't work due to the stupid Parallel card having some funky "auto-configure" crap going on. On the XP machine, the Parallel card is built-in and doesn't keep reconfiguring itself, but I found out there's no way to make the one in the Windows 7 box behave like that. in other words, I'll not be doing any CNC work on the Windows 7 box without a lot of extra expenditure in software or using one of those GRBL/Arduino setups. I did buy one, I do have an Arduino and GRBL shield, never used it though (the shield I mean), and frankly, I'm that pissed-off right now with everything else that I just cannot be bothered to have to learn how to setup and use that thing as well.

Man, what a waste of two months. I started with an XP box that does everything I need apart from run Axoloti, and two months later, that's exactly what I still have minus two months of my life down the drain along with cash that could have been better spent.

Was hoping to try what was suggested in the XP thread, but I'm on a limited bandwidth sim that sucks up cash like you would not believe. There's like a billion versions of Java on that site at around 50MB a go, different flavours of it etc, so there's no way I'm downloading one after the other until I find the right one. If someone provides the download link I'll still give it a try as planned, obviously, but other that, just can't be bothered any more, lifes to short and all that.

#19

No worries mate, as we say down here...

I can understand the frustrations, been there myself a few times, and when money is involved, can make it ten times worse..
I am sure an opportunity will eventually present itself to you over time...

On a much lighter side, sorry, but I have to ask, so please only laugh !!,
but does this mean we won't see an end to the debate on "Analogue v's Digital.".. :sob:

#20

I think that is also what Trump and Putin are talking about when they meet. They are aware of the problems that the analogue/digitale debate causes and have therefore decided, that the debate can and will only be solved by nuclear weapons.... So we will see and end to the discussion..... When then world ends........... :slight_smile:

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