Turning the rockafella patch into a delay

#1

Hey

I'm been at it all day trying to make this thing into a delay.

What I want to happen:

  1. I hit the bypass footswitch on my Axo pedal and the patch starts recording and playing back from the table (once it hits the end of the sample lenght set by a knob). None of that envelope stuff is needed (can I just delete it?). It should, like a delay, always be recording and playing back as long as the pedal is activated.

  2. Another knob to control the feedback (how many times a sample repeats before fading away)

  3. One knob to control playback speed and another to control the grain size (this one I've figured out)

  4. A toggle to select what the second footswitch will do; either reverse the playback or freeze the sample (I think I've got this one as well)

I'm basically stuck at points 1 and 2, which sort of grinds everything to a halt. I just can't seem to figure out how to do it. Whenever I've tried a new solution I either get no sounds at all or I get error messages when uploading the patch. I've tried looking at other table-based delays, but I can't seem to open them up (embed as patch patcher) to see how they are put together.

Thanks for any help!
Tagging @JeromeB so I don't have to necrobump his thread, in case he's still around.

#2

Hey there which rockafella do you mean? when i search on my harddrive I found one by JeromeB with dedicated coded objects and one made with factory objects.
The second one should be fairly easy to do, you just have to replace table/rec with ldub object, like in the table delay patch I gave you in the other thread.

#3

Hmmm, the one I've got has this recording object. Do I swap that out with Idub? Pretty sure I already tried that earlier but I got no sound from it.

Plus, the playback object looks like this, and if the loop mode is on it loops indefinitely, whilst it makes no sound at all if it's off, so I need a workaround there too, I'd assume.

#4

Hi @Agoraphobe,

You can delete envelope stuff at the beginning of the patch :

Capture d’écran de 2020-11-23 23-01-51.png773x193 15.8 KB

For feedback, why not use an envelope and a vca after rockafella object, triggered by ctr/button used to start recording ?

#5

IDK. It seems to still work like this: I have to hold down the footswitch to record (while I'd like it to keep recording until I step on it again (bypass the pedal)), and when I release it, it starts playing the "sample", and the amount of time I held down the footswitch and played sets the delay time (which I'd like to do with a knob).

RE: feedback, I don't understand how that would work either. Day 2 of trying stuff now but not moving closer to the desired outcome, haha! Thank you both very much for your help so far :blush:

#6

@Blindsmyth I tried the ldub object again as well, but I'm getting no sound from it at all. :persevere:

#7

hey the ldub needs to be driven by a phasor, like in the delay patch I gave you. is that the case?

#8

So you both know where I'm starting from, this is the base patch I'm trying different things from every time:

this one.jpg1144x644 118 KB

The only thing I've added from the patch I found in JeromeB's thread is the bypass switch and two knobs for speed and grain size. Obviously I'm ignoring stuff like a mix knob etc, just trying to get the wet signal's functionality to act the way I want.

#9

Yeah. It does, but there's nowhere to connect it to (?)

#10

Even though I'm not sure how to move the signal from the main patch to the internals of the sub patch, I see that there are two phasors embedded inside the rockafella player. Can I somehow connect a phasor (main phasor?) to the ldub recorder in the main patch, and will that do the trick, or are they controlling something different entirely? :joy: @Blindsmyth

this one.jpg1283x848 203 KB

#11

Use toggle object for this.

If it's only once, use start input.

I'm sorry but I don't understand this part : there is no delay in this effect.

You need to clarify what is feedback for you here. This time stretcher has no feedback parameter. Maybe you want the sample to repeat itself but with a decreasing gain?

Original patch is in Help>Library>Community>gao>sample>rockafella

Attached is an initial response to your request.
rockafella.axp (7.3 KB)
rockafella.axs (17.3 KB)

#12

I think you are mixing up what it's currently doing (not in parentheses) with what I want it to do (in parentheses) in what you're quoting. It was a bad idea to write it like that :rofl:

I know it's not a delay, which is why I'm asking how to make it act like a delay in the thread title :sweat_smile:

Let me see if I can use my subpar English skill to reiterate what I'm trying to do:

Think of a delay pedal for guitar, which is something I've already made using buffers with axoloti and is housed in an enclosure right now. I really like that pedal, but I'd also like to add a granular time stretching mode to it, where I can stretch the repeats(sample) and choose grain size without the pitch going all over the place. But, I don't know anything about working with tables, which seems to be the way to do it. After reading and searching the forum, I found your awesome sampler.

The thing is, it is a sampler, and I want a delay that processes the signal from the moment I stomp on my footswitch until I stomp it again, aka bypass the pedal. So, I want the first thing I played to gradually fade out using a knob to control how fast it will do that. So, say knob at minimum = one repeat/playback of the table, knob at 12 = repeat is repeated a few times while the first thing i played fades away gradually, knob at maximum = keeps looping indefinetly while adding more to the loop as I play. Basically like a repeats knob on any digital delay pedal (that doesn't go into self-oscillation, although I wouldn't mind that either when the knob is maxed out).

IDK, maybe I can make the first table play once and then be fed to other subsequent tables and have one knob control the volume of those following tables (so, table 1 at 100% volume plays once, is sent to table 2 and played once at 75% volume, which is then sent to table 3 at 50% volume and played once etc, so they work like delay repeats fading out on a delay pedal) OR do what you suggested, to have "the sample repeat itself but with a decreasing gain", but wouldn't that mean that all the new stuff I have played between the first repeat/table playback would also decrease in gain? Maybe not...

Right now, on the other hand, I'm trying the approach @Blindsmyth hinted at, which is using the ldub object to work as my recording object, as it has a feedback feature, and then use your playback object to stretch and adjust grain size, but it seems like ldub needs a phasor to move through the table, and I'm wondering where I can connect that phasor inlet to. Whatever I've tried so far with this approach just gives me no sound at all.

Does that make more sense? :sweat_smile:

edit: Oh, I forgot, I'd also like to control the length of the table with a knob (like a time knob on a normal delay pedal)

#13

rockafella ldub.axp (24.6 KB)
He there I hooked up a ldub here. It makes a weird pitchshifted version of what you played into it from time to time but I don't get it myself either. Anyways could be a start.

Bildschirmfoto 2020-11-25 um 03.25.20.png2208x1290 314 KB

#14

How about this, mutable instruments clds:

Bildschirmfoto 2020-11-25 um 03.39.40.png1708x1424 159 KB

cldsdly.axh (2.3 KB)

the size knob is your delay time. feedback is feedback (this one quickly gets out of hand though)

#15

Thank you so much! It's 4am here and I was just about to drift off to sleep when my email notified me of these posts, so I'll check em out tomorrow! I think I've messed with the mutable instruments one before and like you said, it gets out of hand fast, haha!

#16

So I got to try it real quick before heading off to work. I mean, it seems to work how I'd like it to (more or less), but it seems like it will always "play" the lenght of the table, so if I record a short snippet, it will play, then wait some seconds, then play again, making those moments of silence kind of weird, haha. So "time" knob at 50% with a ~5 sec table (at normal playback speed) will give me 2,5 sec of sound and 2,5 sec of silence before the sound plays again.

Is there a way to make it play the table from the start again based on where I set the "time" knob, or at least closer to it? Idk what you'd call that. Setting the endpoint of the table?

#17

Sorry if I don't understand your need, maybe my problem with English, maybe an excess of rigor, or both. :wink:

I had read the title, but still didn't understand what "like a delay" means. With the addition of clarifications, I have confirmed what I thought I understood... it may be very complicated to achieve what I think you want.

If you want to make a delay feedback but with a variable pitch, use the clds component proposed by Blindsmyth. It has a lot of other fun parameters.

If you want to stretch the sample "in live", in this case it is difficult because it is necessary that the playback of the table is done at the same speed as the recording. If the playback is too fast, you will have silences, if the playback is slower, you will have to store more and more samples until the table is quickly filled.
Using a circular buffer does not help: there will be artifacts when writing catches up with reading.

It is the continuous processing that is difficult with variable speed reading. But I may be wrong.

#18

There are different types of delays out there. Usually with many of them if you turn the delay time knob the pitch changes up or down, like on a tape.
I think what @Agoraphobe wants is one where the pitch stays the same. That's why he got interested in your rockafella I think.
The TC Electronic Flashback or the Boss DD 20 would be examples of doing that. Also Ableton's delays can be set to not change the pitch. In any way you will have artefacts as a result. However these artefacts are usually very interesting musically :slight_smile:

#19

Ok, I'll look at the TC Electronic Flashback or the Boss DD 20, maybe I'll understand the need better. If the artifacts are wanted, I must be able to produce something! :rofl:

#20

Before I met axoloti I've been a sucker for these kind of sounds. I would go to Thomann and try aaaalll delay pedals they have and analyze them for how nice they glitch when changing delay time :laughing:

Boss DD20 is a bit of a special beast though. When turning the pitch knob there is this slight pitch change and then more digital artefact. When you change delay time it sounds more like cutting and editing a sample in a funny but interesting way...
Sometimes I'm sad I sold that pedal, but hey I have like 5 axoloti boards here :sunglasses: