Trueno: the world's smallest analog synthesizer

#1

Nice formfactor! But it's missing an analog output. Otherwise this would be put into it's usb host port a perfect partner for axoloti!

#2

From what I read, I actually dont see the word "analog" filter og "analog" oscillator anywhere. I see "voltage controlled" oscillator.... Which a digital oscillator also can be....... It does say "analog modulation"..... But what does that mean? CV control of a digital oscillator? Is that the "analog" part of the synth, that i uses cv to control the digital oscs?

To be honest to me it seems like a company who wants to benefit from using buzzwords like "analog" in their sales pitch..... But it does not in any shape or form produce any analog sounds. Everything is digital from filters to oscs to effects......... Except the modulation, which is CV.. I am even doubtful about what they write about that....... Snake oil is all i have to say a bout that device, they are trying to sell you something it definetely is not, ANALOG.

So again another company using buzzwords like "analog".... They forgot to mention "modelled after Moog" then the buzzword circle would be complete..... Adding phrases like "floorshaking filter" seem to attract some people, god knows why.......

http://truenosynth.com/about/#specs

#3

It seems that there are multiple circuits in the little box. So it may be partially analog.

But, yes, i wonder how an analog oscillator can generate 256 sample long wavetable.
Does it really implement voltage controlled/ variable clock/address counter à la Fairlight II ?

#4

According to what they write on the page I dont see it as analog in any way. If it has to be analog there must be some kind of analog soundsource and from what I read, there is no analog sources in this device, not according to their own webpage.

The word "analog" is used many times, but mostly to describe the synths that they have tested it against. IF this is not analog, I am almost offended how they try to make people believe it is analog, byt using clever wordplay. But when it comes to the actual description of the parts of the synth analog is not mentioned anywhere:

Screen Shot 2017-12-04 at 20.48.42.png1108x575 83.3 KB

Very sceptic over here.....

#5

And also this:

Screen Shot 2017-12-04 at 20.51.32.png1090x554 129 KB

Analog not mentioned anywhere, except in the modulation description. And if there was an actual analog filter in this device I am pretty sure it would be pointed out very clearly, it usually is, cause it is a higly wanted feature.. But it all seems a bit fuzzy, the details....

Anyway, the idea is great :slight_smile: I'll gladly be proven wrong :slight_smile:

#6

Voltage controlled implies analog control.
If the modules are not "voltage controlled", they are lying.

I guess/hope it is a bunch of analog modules (based on reissued or chineese copies of SSM or CEM chips) controlled by Analog GPIOs from a microcontroller.

#7

What if the digital part is generated by the vst, then dac'd and mixed inside the filter and then back to the computer?

#8

Lets see when someone buys and review it. Someone will take it a part so we can see what is inside :slight_smile:

#9

It's just like sort of Korg duotron controlled and sampled by a micro-controller.

#10

They still seem to claim that there is real analog inside but that they only used DAC's to get the audio into the digital domain, forgoing an inbuilt analog amplifier with an output so to speak.

"The fully integrated 44.1 KHz 24 bit analogue to digital converter captures the synthesiser’s output with perfect clarity. No more noisy, tangled cables."

The whole analog to digital discussion becomes less relevant each year anyway (as my Axoloti has recently confirmed me). By now programming skills (if not those of the user then those of the builder of the preset libraries) are much more important then the technological platform.

So why actually bother!

#11

Yes, but it does not in any way imply that there is any analog sound sources or processing tools inside, inside for example a filter.. I mean, you can also have VCF filters in the digital domain. We have them in Axoloti we have them in Pure Data and they are 100% digital. So just because something is called a "VCF filter" doesnt mean that it actually is an analog filter, it might be a model of an analog filter, who knows.

Yes I agree, it is not about if analog is better than digital, I dont even want to be in that debate, it is pointless :slight_smile: Both have their benefits. To me it is more about actually delivering what you promise > an analog sound device, as i read it.

To me it really sounds like this is an analog device, because of clever wordplay. And IF this is not analog, they are seriously cheating their customers. No one is forcing them to write analog, it is a choice they made cause analog sells. And IF they only us it as a buzzword, they should be hold accountable. It is a matter of principles.

#12

I don't care if its analog or digital either. As long as it sounds good. Some sort of an (additional / separate) CV / Gate interface would have been great. I would buy it if i could hook it up with my Axoloti or Eurorack.

#13

When I first read about it I thought a least 2 Osc where analog, + analog vca and filter. But you guys are right it's all a bit vague.

I still think the whole concept would be kind of intriguing IF the parts mentioned above would be truly analog and you would add maybe a usb host port for controllers/keyboards and analog IO, maybe in the form of stereo mini jack as send return in order to minimize space.

I think the analog realm shines with simple stuff, like saw tooth osc, filters and distortion (or even filterdistortion) but I love to combine this stuff with the strengths of digital systems. But like this this thing doesn't make to much sense, if most of it is digital I'd rather use my axoloti :slight_smile:

#14

The web page mentions "three highly stable digitally controlled VCOs" and "we took a highly respected modular VCO design and adapted it for digital control" as well as "With the same oscillator circuits found in modular monstrosities". It also says "Trueno can tune all of its oscillators in 10 seconds" which implies that they actually need to be tuned. But "oscillator 3 has a digital noise generator", and there's the bit about digital waveforms.

Regarding the filter, it says "Trueno’s filter is based on a soviet Russian design known for its unmatched harsh, aggressive sound" which doesn't really say if it's an analogue design or a digital model of one.

Given that there actually seems to be an ADC in their, my guess would be that they are using some form of DCO design, i.e. digitally controlled frequency generation coupled with analog waveforms - similar to the way many what many would call analog synths generate their waveforms, from a Juno-60 to a Mopho. The whole tuning bit makes it sound like they are real VCOs though, with a DAC feeding them control voltages, possibly with the exception of oscillator 3 which sounds like some form of sample playback engine. This is all then coupled to an analog filter, before being A/D converted (so the VCA is actually digital) There also seems to be some analogue modulation routing, but LFOs and envelopes are digital.

The question is how much of a difference this makes, but there is one thing which definitely points to an analog filter: one of the modulation routings is filter FM, i.e. audio modulation of the filter with an oscillator. If you try to do this in the Axoloti for instance, you run into aliasing problems with the modulation, because the modulation will take place at the k-rate of 3 kHz, which is why this modulation path is fairly rare in VA synths. The Nord Modulars for instance have a k-rate of 24 kHz with a sample rate of 96 kHz, and I'm suspecting the same rates are used in for instance the Nord Lead 3 so it's less of a problem on that platform. For a really bad example of this problem check out the Oberheim OB-12. It sounds rather nice until one turns on audio modulation in the oscillators, when all sorts of nasty digital artifacts start turning up.

Now of course a true analog filter is not the only solution, if there is enough DSP power one could certainly imagine a VA synth where the k-rate equals the sample rate. But it does nudge me towards thinking the central signal path in this synth really is analog.

Then of couse as has been asked above in this thread, the question is, does it matter, in this day and age. Still, true audio FM is hard to accomplish on a VA platform without running into aliasing problems, and the Trueno designers seem to be aware of this and have tapped in on this possibility. (Note that they also don't mention oscillator FM, leading me to believe that the oscillators are actually DCOs.)

#15

Yeah, if the filter uses modulation at sample rate, FM modulation should be possible. For example in PD there are filters that takes signal(sample) rate input, for example bob~. I think most of the filters does.

#16

Even so, there'd be the problem of aliasing due to the sidebands extending past half the sampling rate, which at least would be an issue with the resonance turned up. Then again I don't know if there are any special tricks to deal with this.

#17

Yeah, a bit of oversampling would do the trick. But that is "expensive":

For example bob~ from PD offers oversampling. But if you crank up the resonance with no oversampling it sound...... horrible.... But as soon as you turn the oversampling up to X2, the resonance, becomes smooth and sound okay. So oversampling could be the solution.

Would be nice to know which processor it uses, so one could estimate what would be possible to make with this device :slight_smile:

#18

Haha, just stumbled over this one "The Fewchur synth" :slight_smile: Seems like someone had foreseen this coming back in 2014 :slight_smile:

#19

Yes, definitely. I'm still willing to be that there's some form of analog signal path inside this thing,.

#20

I am not convinced, but open to it :slight_smile:

Lets see, I have seen a lot of debate about it around the web, so I am sure someone will buy it and take it apart and review it. But it is stil only available in some countries.