Next-gen and mini Axoloti hardware discussion

#326

This is because of the destination, which in your case was the USA. You're lucky you don't have to pay the VAT, but unfortunately the purchasers in every destination that has a VAT system in place, will have been charged the relevant VAT rate at Johannes checkout.

So it's the destination that counts when it comes to VAT, though I must admit it has always baffled me how, for example, the UK can force USA-based businesses to charge VAT. One would naturally assume, that yourself and Urklang are both governed solely by USA law, not EU or UK law - and that's the way it should be IMHO.

Unfortunately, they must have something in place to prevent that, and to force the transfer of taxes, otherwise every non-VAT country could basically stick two fingers up and refuse to charge VAT.

#327

Ignoring big companies like Amazon, do any small US online sellers collect EU VAT?

#328

Tech clarification: all that is missing with respect to power supply is the barrel jack itself. The board can still be powered from 2.5V to 12V DC in. The headphone output on the original Core is driven directly by the codec's headphone driver. The new board does something similar. The idea with the TPA6132A2 headphone amp device in the original core is for differential to single-ended conversion and ground loop break (and allowing for a redundant headphone driver on the line out jack), but it actually has worse noise performance for line out than the drivers in the codec itself.

I'll go into more detail about the IO structure when the store page goes up, but essentially I've taken what the original Core does and tried to optimize everything for minimal noise and to allow for the option of separated left and right balanced IO.

#330

I didn't realize that the new board could still take 12vdc in, good. But my point was that, overall, part count is reduced, and BOM cost shouldn't go up, and might go down.

#331

No company collects EU VAT because technically it's a country-based VAT, not EU-based VAT.

Anyway, I think Urklang should get professional advice from some sort of financial lawyer. I have heard of small US-based companies not charging VAT, but that was some time ago now.

#332

I’ll rephrase:

Ignoring big companies like Amazon, do any small US online sellers collect VAT for a country in the EU?

#333

Already answered that, yes, they all do if they follow the law. I'm baffled by what must be in place, but some law obviously is.

If it turns out, however, there is no such law, then I can personally assure you that I shall demand a full VAT refund from the British Government for every US-based transaction I ever made, and I can also assure you that everyone else who had been charged it, would not be far behind me :grin:

#334

You seem to be assuming such a law exists, without offering any evidence of it.

I specifically excluded big companies, since they often have offices internationally, making them subject to local laws in those jurisdictions.

#335

Just guessing here, but if VAT wasn't charge by the seller wouldn't the item get flagged at customs where you the buyer would need to pay it to get the item? Similar to certain things I buy from the US (I'm in Canada)... and some things that are not exempt or over a dollar threshold get charged taxes and duty when I pick them up (unless I pay big for shipping and then they handle it).

#336

Indeed, I'm just assuming such a law exists, but obviously I'll be damn pleased if one does not, as will billions of others!

I wasn't joking, I will demand a VAT refund for every US-based transaction I ever made if I were ever to find out that there are no legal grounds for a US-based business charging me VAT.

Such practices would be theft by deception, surely, if they were not law. Anyway, I'm no expert on this stuff (far from it). I absolutely despise "Government" to the maximum extent that is humanly possible, and have no interest in legalese, I find it all incredibly depressing and boring to be honest.

So if Urklang doesn't need to charge VAT, that's great, but unfortunately, I think he does.

#337

I don't know, cause I've never had anything physical sent to me from abroad that exceeded the import tax threshold. My purchases from the USA have generally consisted of online software and services, not physical goods. I've never had to pay import taxes for anything in my life, so I have no idea about that side of things, but yes, I'm guessing (just guessing mind you) that VAT requirements might get recorded in such procedures.

#338

We're getting off in the weeds here. Let's keep it civil. I'm with you; this bureaucratic nonsense getting in the way of progress is annoying. Obviously as a US-based business selling internationally, it's my responsibility to resolve things as best I can so we can get hardware to people who want it. If you have further concerns about it, message me directly.

#339

Anyway, no matter what taxes will be applied, I am getting one anyway :slight_smile:

And of course you as developer, @urklang, has no responsibility towards end users and how their countries handles taxes and how much it is.

So keep up the good works and keep us updated how it goes :wink:

I apologise if I opened a can of works.

#340

I don't know what you mean by that; I am being civil and I don't have any concerns about it whatsoever. I just pointed out what I know because you asked about it.

#341

Me too, I’ll definitely buy one, or more.

#342

My hope is, that I can do with only ONE Axo now, hehe :slight_smile:

I have been juggling with 3-4 Axolotis in a set up and it quickly becomes a bit of complicated with 3-4 patchers open and also having to get a proper USB hubs that works flawlessly. Had so many issues with disconnects when I have more Axolotis connected to a hub. Tried a few hubs with same result, too many disconnects, even hubs that other people said they had success with.

With the new "Super Axoloti", these issues will hopefully go away :slight_smile:

#343

@axoman Didn't mean to sound like I was calling you out. I appreciate your input. I was just sensing things starting to spiral into an argument about murky details that ultimately I need to resolve internally.

#344

I sell Eurorack modules to the EU quite often and I don't specify, charge, or even know the VAT charges that they pay. It is all handled at their end. I charge one price, choose a standard Tariff code (This can all be found at - https://hts.usitc.gov) and ship the package. I choose the Tariff code with the least amount of taxation that still works for the type of object I'm shipping (I use 9207.90.00 or 9209.94.80 typically).

People in the EU are used to paying Value Added Tax on all imports. I'm sure they take the added expense into account. The shipping cost is another thing. I charge the customer shipping and off them choices. I ship via USPS and use their Click 'n Ship service. The cost to the EU is often almost equal or more than the cost of the unit I am shipping. The prices for shipping USPS don't change till after a pound weight has been crossed so in many cases I suggest a group buy to put many units in one box to share shipping cost. This is where dealers in the EU make a difference, buying larger lots of units and spending less per unit shipping cost. They all seem to jack the price up from our MSRP anyway and I assume that is to compensate for VAT cost.

#345

I got curious about this and did some reading before hitting the sack last night.

I read something about US-Based companies need to charge VAT if they have a registered office in the EU. That makes sense and would even explain what Tele was on about regards Amazon. Amazon have a registered office in the EU, therefore they must charge VAT.

If that is correct, then you would not need to charge VAT. It would also explain what I was baffled about!

Sounds like Ersatz has it all worked out, and he doesn't charge VAT. I would definitely notify the purchaser on the checkout page that they are responsible for any import taxes though. Not sure whether it's a legal requirement, but it's only courteous as these charges are based on the destination country, and the buyer might not be aware they exist.

#346

I live in Netherlands. Situation is as follows:
- For all stuff I buy in EU (I mean the Euro-zone of the EU) VAT is included by the seller in the price. So I pay everything at purchase time, and I dont have to pay anything else when it enters our country. Wether it is €10 or €300. This goes for everything I purchase via small or big webshops (Amazon.de) or a Reverb-seller in Greece or Belgium.
- For stuff I buy in the US, for instance via Reverb or other small sellers, the seller doesnt add any kind of tax (nor the US state tax nor the EU VAT). Seller writes the cost on the package, and when it arrives in Netherlands, if it is above certain treshold (I believe €35) the customs charge me with VAT (21%) and handling fee.
- For stuff from China, of course they dont charge any kind of taxes, and they write ridiculously low values on the package, and I have never ever been charged by the Dutch customs. Btw, I have never bought something above €100 from China.
Hope this helps.