Aliasing/sample rate


#1

Hi. Is it possible to adjust the internal sample rate on the axoloti? I'm not talking about output sample rate but the internal one. Is oversampling possible? I'm assuming there can be some heavy aliasing going on if everything is 48khz internal.
I'll be ordering an axoloti next week and I'm just curious:)

EDIT: a search for oversampling informed me that it is possible;)
Thanks


#2

Axoloti uses 48khz for audio.

About the oversampling:
There have been some talk about it, but I havent seen any attempts on making it work yet.


#3

It depends a lot on what you want to do. The oscillators are available in alias free (or at least alias-supressed) versions (using a BLEP algorithm), but if you start doing various forms of clipping, or something else that creates a lot of harmonics you can get aliasing problems. Also, modulating a control input (control inputs run at 3 kHz) with an audio signal will create aliasing in the control signal.


#4

Thanks. By control input, do you mean the analog and digital inputs?
Thanks


#5

@ricard

Curious about the blep. Nothing comes up on a search. Link? :smile:


#6

You can have a look at the anti-aliased osc objects to see what makes them tick.

If you're Googling around the Internet, you could search for 'minblep' or 'polyblep'. I think they're variations on the same basic idea.

a|x


#7

Ahh yes. I found that a few of them has anti aliasing from a thread in here.

Anyway, not really using Axoloti own oscillators but mostly wavetables.


#8

No, I mean the control inputs on the objects, such as the filter cutoff frequency input. They are sampled at the k-rate i.e. 3 kHz, so if you apply an audio signal there at the 48 kHz s-rate you'll get severe aliasing on the modulating signal.


#9

Divide by 16? K-rate is 16 times slower than S-rate.


#10

Ok. Thanks. I dont think i'll ever pass audio rate modulation. Never cared much for ring modulation etc.


#11

Not sure if it works or is intended to work that way..... but the math is simple :smile:

Me neither :smile:


#12

Ring modulation can be really useful if you know what you're doing with it, but like FM there are practically infinite ways of making inharmonic mess. Plenty of useful sounds, but they're easily outnumbered by the useless ones. :stuck_out_tongue:
The best 'subtractive' acoustic piano I ever heard used a RM.


#13

The fact that the connections between objects are only 48kHz doesn't inherently imply aliasing. Only operations that would generate harmonics above 24kHz would cause aliasing. The HQ versions of the oscillators are bandlimited and things like filters don't generate harmonics unless modulated at a high rate, so you're pretty safe for the traditional subtractive model.

And as has been covered by others, oversampling within an object is completely possible.


#14

Well it is not like I have a grudge against ring modulation :smile: Just never really used it that much.

hmm.. Now I need to look into it and find out pros/cons :smile:


#15

It's complicated to understand, it generates sum and difference frequencies for every combination of frequencies between the two inputs, so a sine at 100Hz and a sine at 200Hz would have an output signal that consisted of two frequencies: 100Hz (diff) and 300Hz (sum)
Same general rule as FM applies, namely that the output will generally be inharmonic unless the inputs are harmonically related in a nice ratio.

Now imagine one input is a bandlimited saw and the other is still a sine. The output signal will have twice as many harmonics, the sum of all saw harmonics with the sine and the difference between all the saw harmonics and the sine. It gets complicated fast, but as long as you use harmonic intervals you'll get interesting sounds other than your basic 'analogue' waveforms. You can give it a go by sending two oscillators into an s-rate * object.

Ring mod sales pitch over.


#16

ringmod is actually very similar to fm in that it generates the same sideband frequencies at a+b and a-b but without frequency width and carrier signal, so there is less harmonics to deal with. its an awesome sound especially when you start widening the bandwidth of the carrier. here is a homemade phase displacement oscillator with double ringmod in pure data: http://tindeck.com/listen/eciu