Advice on hardware sequencers that exploit the potential of the Axoloti

#1

I'm enjoying building intricate sounds with the Axoloti (well, or reusing patches from the community that do that for me), for now I'm using it in conjunction with a Novation Circuit MonoStation in order to deepen the sound, add polyphony etc.
But the sequencing capabilities of the mono station are... subpar to say the least (you can't sequence several notes on the same step, even if you can play several notes live at the same time (it works fine with a polyphonic patch on the Axoloti) and it can sequence only 2 tracks, because well that's what it's made for), though I like playing on it. The pads are good and velocity-sensitive, settable scales with 4 octaves in range, it's great, better than a keyboard since I'm no pianist, and you can get some nice first synth drafts. So I use it mostly as a scratchpad for ideas.

However, I noticed how WAAAAY faster it is for me to go through composition with dedicated hardware rather than with a DAW. So I'm wondering what people here use to that end, as my main synth will be the Axoloti (too much gear is too much, modular's not for me and if I need more power for even more complicated synth, well I can just buy a second Axoloti or use my laptop).
I've seen videos and reviews on, like, all of them (stuff from Elektron, Akai, Synthstrom, Squarp, Toraiz, even the arcanic DIY midiphy stuff or the unaccessible/crazy expensive Cirklon or not-released-yet stuff like Polyend Tracker).

I'd really like something that has the flexibility to send as many notes as the Axoloti can handle (so 8 tracks is like a super bare minimum), that is not locked into a quaternary time grid, one note per step and fixed pattern lengths. Ideally for 600€ or less (second-hand or not) but I guess I can (and should ^^) be flexible on that.

The 3 on top of my list for now are (1) Synthstrom Deluge (of course), (2) Squarp Pyramid (of course again) and (3) Polyend Seq. But the downsides of them are (1) it's a bit above my price tag even in second-hands, (2) it has only 16 pads, so it means some menu scrolling etc. to edit and work through your song so not super convenient and (3) above the price tag (esp. given it has only 8 tracks, yes I know I'm spoiled, I come from PCs and DAWs and I don't like low arbitrary upper-bounds of any sort) and quite big and more difficult to transport in just a bag.
But I know some people around here have a Pyramid and love it, so maybe I can be convinced :slight_smile: plus I'm not afraid of some steep learning curve or 2- or 3-key shortcuts (I develop using emacs everyday, for those who know).

Playing live is not my main goal (just hitting play, occasionally switching patterns and fiddling some encoders is good enough for me), but iterating fast, easily working with odd time signatures and not having to hack around like crazy with note offsets to put together some simple triplets/quintuplets in a 4/4 track are.
Also if I can be free from wall sockets that could be great (internal battery or external power bank, don't care).

...and also I need it for tomorrow (/kidding).

#2

Seems like you know what's out there to choose from in sequencer world.

If you have Eurorack, the Eloquencer is also a great contester. But only 8 tracks, though. But it has some nice features.

You can always build something in Pure Data and use a midi controller as control surface. But it's a lot of work to make something sweet, but the good thing is that you can add new features as you go.

In general I think the prices for sequencers are a bit high, so never really got one, I just use Pure Data and I use a Novation Launch Key Mini as a controller.

#3

Interesting option. Does the Launch Key or other similar products (Launchpad Pro, Livid Base II) give you a way to automatically animate their pads from the computer (from PureData) so you can have visual feedback over what's being sequenced?
I know most of them provide integration with Ableton Live or other softwares, but I don't know if that connection is openly and (more importantly) easily scriptable?

#4

Yes you can control the pads on Launch Key Mini easily. You just have to put it in "InControl mode", then you can send midi data to the pads, giving you full bidrectional control.

I would probably advice to get the Launch Key 25 instead of the Launch Key Mini. I am planning on replacing the mini with the bigger version. It has better/bigger knobs and keys and a modulation wheel and pitchbend, an extra fader and a 3 digit display that shows value midi cc values 0-127. It also has more colours, I think it has RGB colours, as I understand it. THe mini only have like 4-5 colours with different brightness.

It will take some work to do it if you want advanced features, like pages of parameters, step controlled parameters and longer sequences, presets and so on. It is a lot of work. But everything is possible :slight_smile:

But also save a good a mount of money in the long run as you can just expand it as you go :slight_smile:

#5

Do you happen to have your PureData patches opensource ^^?

Also did you try to run the same sequencing capabilities straight from an Axoloti patch? :slight_smile:

#6

No sorry. It is an on going project, which I have been working on for years.

Haven't actually even made a track with it yet myself, haha :slight_smile:

Might be "released" later on, but now it it's still "work in progress"

#7

But I don't mind giving some advice if you get started on something :wink:

I build sequencers in many different ways in PD. This one is probably the simplest sequencer you can build in pd, just a simple trigger sequencer:

#8

I would say digitakt it's a pretty nice companion as you can sequence and also sample and mix w Axoloti Stuff. Octatrack wold be the coolest, probably because you can control even 2 axolotis at once and get their inputs independent, mix / add effects / record phrases, etc.. But Its learning curve it's a bit steep... Another device which I love for its sequencer is the op-z.. Its aliased sound it's a bit of a downer but the sequencer is really good and quick.. Now I'm using an organelle Which is more powerful than op-z but I have to work for it....

#9
#10

genoqs nemo or octopus, two of the most advanced step-sequencers out there!

#11

I plan on using the keystep pro, which doesn't have the advanced features that the circlon will have, but unquantized recording and pretty usable interface makes it a decent performance tool I think.

#12

Sounds like you've already done some thorough research, all that stuff is just always too expensive... I have also looked for the right sequencer for a long time and then decided to get the Deluge. It's the most expensive thing I've owned so far and I had to sell some other equipment and get cheaper stuff in exchange - until now I'm pretty happy with that.

The only cheaper alternatives that come to my mind (and weren't already mentioned) are getting a used Akai MPC 1000 or a (huge) Yamaha RS 7000. Both are very capable sequencers and superior to all the overhyped Elektron machines when it comes to track count, polyphony and so on, but are of course not very portable and have a dated workflow.

There are also a few more modern contenders I don't know much about: 1010music blackbox (probably fiddly touchscreen action) and the new Roland MC grooveboxes (101 and 707). Or wait until Behringers "Jam" is ready...

#13

The Noodlebox from 64pixels looks fun. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/noodlebox-a-serendipity-sequencer#/

#14

Thanks guys!
Yeah if I had the money (and patience ^^) to try and find one maybe the Octopus might be a choice (even if it's a tad too heavy for me)
@servandisco I'm wondering: given the organelle patches can be programmed in PureData, doesn't it double up with the Axoloti? Is there something it can't do that the Axoloti does?

#15

Axoloti (in my opinion), specially for creating synths and FX is much quicker and "better sounding" . I wish I could find the same bandlimited oscillators in pd or some saturating objects, or some of the effects.. Also, Axoloti provides the Hardware part.. I have things connected to the gpios, I use the din- midi and I still plug something else to the usb-host in the axoloti and pass it thru to Organelle.
Organelle in the other hand, (or puredata). Doesn't have a limit regarding how many objects you can use and also I find it quicker to make logic stuff (like a complex multichannel sequencer with lots of screen feedback). Resuming: I really love both platforms for different reasons / purposes and they complement each other amazingly well.
Greetings

#16

There is also a limit to Organelle. But for making logic stuff, I'd say it's pretty hard to reach that limit.

But making polyphonic synths, using a lot of audio objects it can also "overload".

But yeah, Organelle does let you make more advanced stuff than Axoloti does. Axoloti is just easier to work with imo.

#17

Okay :slight_smile: thanks for the summary.
I've been able to find a second-hand Pyramid for 430€, so I think I'm gonna start with that, and see how it goes :slight_smile:

#18

I kind of "like" where the limit is in the organelle, it's enough to cook a whole track on it:
This is just made today. One take, nothing else.

#19

Nice one :wink:

Yeah it can do a lot, no doubt :slight_smile:

I haven't been able to make full tracks with it, but it's still nice :slight_smile:

#20

bro just get another axoloti and one of these adafruit rgb button boxes and make your own sequencer!