What's the Catch? - Limitations and Expectations

#21

Well, for one thing, the Axoloti isn't a 'finished' synth, you need to build your own front panel etc etc, which of course is one of the reasons people buy their Axoloti's, to build their own stuff, but when you want to pull up a machine that's got everything finished and ready to go obviously the Axoloti is not right.

Another thing I'd like to bring up is the difference between analog and digital (since you brought up the 0-coast for instance. I'm not talking about an 'analog sounds better than digital' discussion,, but rather the fact that when analog circuitry gets pushed to its limits, it tends to behave in a rather controlled way, whereas digital synthesizers tend to run into all sorts of digital artefacts which are usually less pleasing and harder to control, sometimes requiring knowledge of the underlying design and algorithms to figure out what's going on. Of course, that might be what you're looking for anyway, but I'd say there's a difference there when comparing digital and analog synthesizers, and it's much more noticeable in modular systems.

One such example is aliasing: when digital systems start generating frequencies above half the sampling frequency they get reflected back below that point, leading to often inharmonic overtones that only bear a fleeting resemblance to the actual pitches played. Digital oscillators such as the ones in the Axoloti (compare with the 'trivial' versions if you want to hear the difference; I think there's a patch in the demo section which illustrates this) therefore have anti aliasing features built in, and it works well, but when you start adding frequency modulation (FM), especially when you've got waveforms with lots of harmonics to start with, aliasing becomes hard to control effectively. On the other hand, when doing FM on an analog synthesizer you often hit the stumbling block that oscillator pitch stability becomes an issue, which is something that is never a problem in a digital system. Swings and merry-go-rounds I suppose, but the main point is that there is a difference (which may or not be important depending on what you're doing).

#22

well. my 2 cents about expectations.

i expected 2 things — ultra low latency and honest 24/48 audio. and got them.
did not expect too much horsepower, because i already owned preenFM2 which is based on nearly the same microcontroller.

what was absolute unexpected for me is the fact that i started doing C code. i can't say „write C code“ because i don't write it from my head, it's mainly copy/paste/edit method — but whatever ugly it is at the moment, it works.

the whole patcher thing appears to be really easy to use. that's due to my Csound background. i often call Axoloti „properly made Csound“ due to the very similar concept of building things via patching output(s) of one object to the input(s) of other.

what is mostly annoying in my Axoloti experience is the fact that doing things with MIDI is poorly documented comparing to doing things with audio signal. but since i have built my first patch for real-world daily use, i'm feeling a lot more confident.

#23

I think there are a lot of factors that add up to its total value, and it may have only been because of development in other areas over time that made its development work as it is.
I believe however to major areas define its usefulness.
1. The microcontroller, they are a lot faster, more flexible, and more importantly cheaper then ever.
2. The patcher, I know there are other graphical environments out there, I have tried using some, but there is something about the patcher where you can easily start experimenting with only 4 or 5 factory objects, and this is great for anyone just learning.

I know there are a lot of extra things that make the Axo what it is, but for me these 2 things stand out. Apart from the very small number of other microcontroller systems trying to do something similar, they are add-ons to the already familiar Arduino, Teensy, STM32 etc.. and the flexibility just doesn't feel the same, and I am certainly not in a position to pay a lot of money for a more polished system.

For me there are limitations, everything has limitations, I would like to see more inputs, outputs, more memory etc.. But I also believe working within its means challengers you to not compromise, but to re-think how it can be made to work. This requires just time to experiment, and see what it can do, versus what you want. I only have one Axo, if I had a second, wouldn't know what to do with it.. !

:grin:

#24

Squarp Pyramid

i've read the manual 3 times and fell in love with this gear, but i'm totally out of budget until 2019 …

on the other hand, i badly need to get rid of laptop in my setup, so decided to buy used Yamaha RM1x on ebay at the moment. not exactly what i want, but its sequencer seems to be acceptable for live jamming, and it's usable as a drop-in replacement of my drum module at the same time.

going to use one of Axolotis as MIDI I/O brain in this setup, doing also some additional sequencer tasks.
still don't know what device should act as MIDI clock master — Axoloti or RM1x.

(and Pyramid will be in my plans for 2019.)

#25

Just checking back, this seems to have spawned some very interesting sub topics. Especially midi hubs. I have already found that if I put my Rev2 on the Pyramid's B channel (second midi out) it drops notes. Whereas it works fine on the A channel, and all my other kit is fine on the B channel. This is for a different forum really, but I'm wondering if some units are more sensitive than others to small differences in midi signal levels or something like that? A bit baffling, but I mention it because I'm wondering if midi hubs (existing or wished for) can help with overall stability of a whole rig?
In general, I've been getting along fine with Axoloti and Patcher over the last few weeks. Had one minor issue, which a scan of the help pages quickly resolved. For my first patching project, I thought I would try to put together a poly synth using the same block components as the Rev2. For two reasons: 1) what differences will I discover between Axoloti and a respectable hardware synth, and 2) it's teaching me loads about subtraction synthesis in general as well as about Patcher.
The only frustration I have is the lack of a full and detailed manual, which I accept is understandable with a project like this. I'm using the descriptions for the objects and the examples in the library to find my way through, but having to google a lot - previously had no idea what a multiplier does for example and I'm still guessing about some things.
Finally, I've done enough with it now to satisfy myself that I'm going to get along with Axoloti in the long term. Already thinking about getting a second and even a third and thinking it would be great if someone had some plans for a 'multiple Axoloti rack case', perhaps with integrated dc power distribution.... possibly even a midi hub with single external in/out/thru. : )
Also, will be checking opinions about external controllers. I don't know about soldering one together myself. Midi Keyboards don't necessarily have enough knobs and switches. Faderfox do a nice bank full of midi encoders... for the price of 5 or 6 Axolotis! I will have a search through other topics.

#26

regarding MIDI controllers.
Novation ReMOTE Zero are cheap on ebay nowadays.

regarding MIDI hubs:
ESI just released two new USB MIDI interfaces with integrated USB hubs.
this is the smaller one:
https://www.esi-audio.com/products/m4uex/

oh, yes. i would order it immediately once it's available )

#27

Just in case, I have one for sale: https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen/d/novation-remote-zero-sl-271642947/

#28

watched RM1x service manual.
it has enough space inside for mounting Axoloti…

#29

As a NOOB, I'll jump onto this thread as I have the same sorts of hopes and questions (and gear! ...Rev2) as the OP.

Can someone explain to me how the various memory and storage areas are (or can be) used? According to the Hardware guide, we have:
- 256kb SRAM (inside the microcontroller)
- 1MB Flash (inside the microcontroller)
- 8MB SDRAM
Is this correct? Waht about the microSDCard slot? Is it limited or as large as the card installed?

I presume the SRAM is loaded with the currently running patch? Is there a way to tell how large a patch is or how much SRAM is left? (I think I ran out of SRAM space today with a patch I would consider 'moderately' complex.)
Is there a way to look at what is stored in Flash?
What's the difference between the the SDRAM and the micro SD card (if any)?
What does the Window -> File Manager give you visibility into? (I can see patches and presets I've saved to the SDCard, but I'm not sure which device that is.)

#31

@Axohoop, @thetechnobear, thank you for recommending me Squarp Pyramid half a year ago.
it's totally amazing machine.

(Axoloti is used as MIDI input aggregator & processor in this setup)