Using Axoloti as sample manipulator

#1

Hey smile

Still waiting for the Axo to arrive, but we got the shipping noticification, so I guess it is only a matter of time before it arrives. Great smile

One of the reasons that I bought Axoloti is that I want to use it for crazy sample manipulations . I have a Nord G2 too and I am really hoping that I can program the Axo to do all the things that the G2 is not able to do, like sampling for example. Some basic stuff that I would be great incorporating in the patch would be pitch, sample length/Tempo, start and end loop point, reverse and maybe also some granular modulations sources.

Have anyone thought about using Axoloti for the same purposes? Or maybe already started ob building a patch? Is it possible at all?

Thanks Jaakob

#2

This would be fantastic!

I have been looking at Axoloti objects but the sample players don't have a pitch in to transpose the sample. So a simple sampler to reproduce Mellotron sounds is not posible at the moment, as far as I know.

Sampling manipulation and granular synthesis would be a fantastic area to explore with the Axoloti!

#3

if you want the functionality, you can make it.
that's the beauty of opensource !

/or request it, if you can't code yourself. the community helps

#4

I think it's already possible with some clever use of tables and stuff like that. There also was a demo on youtube of a "breaks machine", so i guess that sample manipulation can be done quite easily even without programming new blocks.

Maybe not in an octatrack fashion, but still possible

#5

Wave file playback was developed to stream samples from sdcard, at the time these were developed, there was no sdram on prototypes. While streaming playback remains useful as there is no length limit (well there is 4GB filesize limit on FAT...) - but also constrained, sample manipulation when samples are in sdram is much easier to program. Sdram does random access while sdcard can only can do buffer access well.
With clever use of tables some stuff can be done already. More objects for sampling will come. The hardware is capable.

#6

I kind of figured that it would be possible, but to me there is still a long way from being able to make it to actually making it smile

I did look at some of the patches that included sample manipulation tools, fo example the Amen is Broke. There are som ideas in there that I can use for sure. But I was not able to find any samplebased patches that had pitch incorporated.

This is just a crazy though: would I break anything if I open the code editor and copy some of the codelines from one obejct to another? Or is this a total no go? I dunno anything a bout programming but I was thinking that I could look for how pitch is implemented in an oscillator and then just copy the line with the pitch info to the other object i want to be able to pitch?

Or is this totally "illegal"? smile

#7

While Axoloti is very open for experimentation and mods, just copying some codelines from one object to another will not get very far if you don't know anything about programming.

#8

You just need some simple math!
The table interpolate read object reads some wave file stored in a table, you just need to specify the "position" you want to read
T=1/f , so if you have a sample of length T, you'll need an oscillator (ramp wave) of frequency f. You feed the table read with this oscillator (remember to set the correct polarity!) and voilà! You have a pitched sample reader

EDIT: if you have some time you can check this video, i found it really inspiring https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTODhn-UROc

#9

Johannes. I kind of thoughts so, hehe smile

johannes: was also wondering a bit about a patch with polyphonic pitch bend. There is video of the patch being controlled by a Roli Seaboard. Is this patch available in the demo/tutorial patches? I am really interested in seing the patch.

Sputnki: Great to know. I think I will get my two Axos this week. I got the shipping confirmation, so I am just waiting fo it to arrive. I need to read and understand some of the terms you write about. Tables?

Sputnki: the breaks machine you talk about is the "amon is broke" right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXYfokD5aDk

#10

I developed an object (and included in distribution) which implements Midi Polyphonic Expression (MPE), Im using this with an Eigenharp and Madrona Labs Soundplane, (but will also work with Seaboard/Linnstrument) for polyphonic Pitchbend and polyphonic timbre ((you with find the patches under demo/synth/mpe)
(it should also work with a Continuum if you set the start channel to 2, pitchbend range to 48)

I plan to do a video very soon to show this all in action, its sweet smile

what controller do you plan to use?

#11

Basically i think it's the technical term for samples, they're sections of memory which contain data. You can interpret this data in several ways such as audio data or maybe sequencer values, it depends on what you put after the table read object (and of course als on how you read the table)

The number of bits tells you the "resolution" of the table, you surely heard of 8-16-24 bit music. In a single 8 bit sample you can store one of 2^8 different values (the general rule is 2^n where n is the number of bits), the higher the number, the higher the quality

The table size tells you how many different values you can store in the table.
If you record at 48000 samples per second in a 2097152 sample table you can record 43 seconds of good quality audio (sample size/sample rate=sample length)

Interpolation is a thing you do to interpret what's in the middle of two values, for example if you have a table made of 2 values, say 10 and 2, you don't actually know what's in the middle, but you can guess it's the mean value (2+10)/2=6, and this thing works pretty decently if you have recorded at 48000 samples/second

#12

I can only see a table/write at control rate, not audio rate... (there is a read at audio rate)
@johannes is there a technical reason for this (Ive not checked the code yet), or can we just add an audio rate version?

#13

If you 'd write at a controllable position, it 'd skip samples.
table/record does it, but only the start position is controllable.

#14

cool, Id forgotten about record (actually, id 'assumed' it was for wave as that uses 'play' )

out of interest, why would a phasor as a position input skip (assumed scaled appropriately)?
i don't see a huge reason to wanting to control the writing this fine grained, as start pos is the most likely requirement,
but interesting to know why.

#15

The phasor frequency and scaling would be supercritical, otherwise samples would be skipped.
Or it 'd need to be slower. But then this will be bad "interpolation".

#16

yup, thats a given.. and I admit, easy to get wrong but good to know its not some other 'external' factor thats is the reason.
but can't think off hand of a reason*, to control it, as often you do the manipulate on the read side.
( * perhaps you could use it to downsample, and so use small table for given time period but again you'd have to be very careful on both read and write side)

#17

I am a VERY keen user of Alchemy for years and I am VERY inspirered from Alchemy to make this Sample manipulator. But since Camel Audio is finished(bought by Apple I think it is) I want to make Axo do same kind of sample manipulations as Alchemy, so I am not bound to software or computers when performing.

#18

Guys I wish I understood what you are talking about ;( hehe smile I do get some of it but some I dont understand at all. Anyway I hope it becomes easier to understand down the road. I remember getting started with the G2 as also very much uphill to start with. But I guess this is a bit different, since there is alot of programming invovled to start with. If you can recommend something to read that gives a basic understanding of Axo programming I would definatly read it. I think I need to go through the resources of this page too.

#19

as with many things, there are different levels...

there is a tremendous amount you can do with axoloti with no programming skills,
But I guess 'tables' are perhaps a bit more complicated/unusual than other objects.... and lower level than the G2 (I guess?), if you have used Max or Reaktor, there are similar objects there.

have you looked at the help file for table? (or the demos) they might take a bit of understanding, but they are reasonably clear... and we can help you here we any issues. (help/library/table/sdram_table is pretty much what we are talking about)

as more people get their boards Im sure there will be more axoloti specific resources.

btw, if anyone wants to contribute help files/demos/tutorials thats cool too.

I may go have a play with the sampling side, as not something Ive dipped into yet,

#20

Technobear, About the Polyphonic pitchbend: I havent got one of those very expressive/expensive controllers, unfortunatly, but I was thinking about how I could make the same sounds without, cause I really like the sound of that patch. Out of this world. So I wanted to look "under the hood" of the patch and get inspired on how I could make something similar. I do have a Kaoss Pad 3 which does have some expressiveness to it smile I have also been thinking about getting a WII controller. I know my friend uses it for his Kyma. It is not the same but also pretty expressive tool and very cheap compared to Roli boards.

link for Roli board video: