The VHS Challenge!

#5

Hey, sorry for the late reply, krikor, I had no idea anyone had posted. I can't test at the moment, but will as soon as I can, and thanks for taking the challenge :sunglasses:

#6

Finally been able to see what you made here!

It brought a smile to my face, but for all the wrong reasons, lol. You've really gone for a dodgy tape transport effect with it, and I like the way it does that, sort of glitches in time with the speed instability. I was really thinking more the rubber-band bassy-warmth kinda thing it does to the sound, not so much the instability stuff, but it's interesting to look at the way it works, so thanks for being a sport and creating it :sunglasses:

#7

the "aging" part together with the filtering was intended to do this but I could not get it to work

#8

I'm pretty new here and this is a great idea!

I see it's a patch though...is it possible to like... add this patch into an existing patch as an effect with a couple key parameters available to be adjusted live? (I literally started a couple days ago and have no idea if this is possible)

#9

Sure, just copy the patch then paste it into your own design, and connect it all up :sunglasses:

#10

Yeeee. But is there any way to do that without it taking up so much space visually in the gui? I'm trying to keep everything simple lookin...

#11

I can't remember the proper term for it off-hand, but you can collect everything and store it in a new object. You basically add inlets and outlets to it so that the other parts can access whats inside it. I can't help with that though, so hopefully someone else will step in to explain that one :blush:

#12

Ah, that's it, I think it's called "Subpatch".

#13

add a patcher/patch object
click edit
copy the bits of the patch you want into the editor window
and inlets and outlets
save as a file, close editor
delete patch object and reload it as an independent subpatch from the file
to do that you open the object list and type ./(name_of_subpatch_file) and hit enter.

subpatches are easy, learn how to use them, it can save a lot of clutter in a big patch.

#14

Not really sure how to do any of that yet haha are there any tutorials for how to do these things step by step? It feels like I'm missing a huge piece of the puzzle here..I went through the tutorials within the Axoloti Gui but don't remember doing any of those things.

Once I figure out how to do these things and have a weekend off I'm going to make some tutorial videos for others...

#15
#16

Documentation is pretty thin and there isn't much in the way of step by step tutorials, read the user guide and try a few things out, it's pretty simple to understand how to put things together but without some knowledge of synthesis it's hard to know what goes with what to get the sound you are after I guess.

#17

Yeah! It seems like it should be super straight forward but I'm finding a lot of extremely important stuff is virtually undocumented...but from trial and error and a lot of dumb lucky I've managed to get things working.

Im definitely going to make some tutorial videos soon when I have some time (my work weeks are hilariously long but I wanna help as much as possible!) My friends here in Toronto just about lot their minds when I explained to them what this is but without some sort of video showing how easy it is to get things up and running, they're all assuming you have to be some sort of matrix-level hacker dude to use this magical thingamajig

#18

I'm back on this, it seems my approach to the slew limiter is wrong, anyone know what could be a good treatment for the aging part of the VHS?

#19

So did you get any further, krikor?

Just wanted to point out, I think the defining character of VHS audio must be down to that 'Depth-Multiplexing' technique it uses (see Wiki quote in first post). I suspect that due to the way it's done, storing two signals at the same tape surface position, that what we hear is being contaminated in some non-obvious (but pleasing) way. At the end of the day they're still storing an analogue audio signal to tape, so I think it's really the Depth-Multiplexing part that makes VHS audio have a different characteristic to that of standard tape recording techniques.

So what I'm getting at is, I doubt ageing and glitches would get you that VHS audio characteristic. I do think tape recordings sound better after they've aged, so there is something of merit in the ageing process of a tape recording, but it's not what gives VHS audio it's unique characteristic.

Although I wouldn't know how to do all of this, I'm thinking that taking the audio signal, processing it with an appropriate form of distortion or 'drive', and then mixing a slightly offset copy of it with the original signal, might reasonably replicate the process where, with VHS, it gets recorded, erased, and re-recorded to the same part of the tape surface. What would need to happen to it in a modulation sense, I'm not entirely sure (perhaps an ultra-high frequncy amlplitude modulation to the cloned signal), but once I get a better understanding of some of the objects I'd definitely be exploring routes like that.

#20

Just came across a clip that I believe demonstrates the magic that Depth-Multiplexed AFM (as used in Hi-Fi VHS) adds to audio recordings. The first is a clip where I suspect the magic can clearly be heard, and the second is one where Depth-Multiplexed AFM definitely not involved (and I can't imagine anyonwe would prefer CLIP 2 over CLIP 1). The technology clearly adds a very pleasing form of dynamics and excitation to the audio, resulting in a more powerful, lush, and crisp sound.

CLIP 1 - Suspected WITH Depth-Multiplexed AFM
CLIP 2 - Suspected WITHOUT Depth-Multiplexed AFM

This comparison might be of interest to those among us who are perhaps too young to have enjoyed the pleasure of Hi-Fi Stereo VHS decks. And yes indeed, just in case it has the cogs in your mind churning away in overdrive, people have already discovered that such decks are the ideal master recorder for their albums. It's exactly as the Wikipedia quote in the original post stated;

"The result of the complex process was audio of outstanding fidelity" :wink:

Yup, so we need to capture that in an axo object ... still waiting :yum: :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

#21

Frankly, I think there was some processing done on Clip 1.
But I agree, it definitely sounds better, to me.

#22

It might not even be what I suspect (which is why I said suspect), but the comparison is very typical of the difference it makes. Here's another that demonstrates the effect. The upload is to advertise a remaster, but I'm guessing the remaster you buy actually sounds nowhere near as good as the upload taken from this video. I don't even have to say "suspect" on this one - Depth-Multiplexed AFM is involved.

It is the ultimate audio exciter!

#23

Another that definitely is :

#24

Just had a listen to these again on standard (but good) every-day headphones (Sony MDR-V150) and I do have some suspicions of The Man Behind The Mask example, it sounds a tad too bright and not quite as weighty as it could, so there's a chance it's just very good mastering.

That said, the Billy Idol and Pink Floyd uploads certainly do have Depth-Multiplexed AFM involved, so better to take those as a guide.

Incidentally, the amount of views this thread is getting suggests that it could be attracting outsiders to the forum when they're searching "VHS". To any and all such people I say welcome to the forum, and don't forget to pick-up an axo while you're here :grin:

And just in case a noob to VHS is thinking of picking-up a VHS deck as a master recorder after hearing these, be sure it is first of all a Hi-Fi VHS deck, and that it has manual recording level control over audio input. If you ignore that advice, your dreams will turn to disaster when you discover that the deck's own limiter will kick-in and you'll not be able to turn it off. The deck must have manual level control over audio input.