Open discussion about the best way to update community library objects!

#21

You are correct, it does seem that way, but it is not true.
I have sourced many contributor programs for Arduino that were done several years ago and have found that they will no longer support their contribution, but are happy for anyone to use. And it would be wrong of me to expect they continue to support it. Same should apply here. TB's idea of an experimental folder is probably a very fair solution.

To be honest, my biggest concern is having contributor objects with the expectation that it will do a certain thing. If I create an object and complete it, and you try using it and find that it does not do what you want, does that then allow you to say it is not complete or in a worse case scenario say it does not belong in the contributor library ?

Please know, I am not a synth guy, I know absolutely nothing about synthesizers, but am trying to learn through the Axo. I am in my mid 40's, Love punk / alternative music ever since the mid 80's. I play the bass guitar, in fact I own 6. What I play is extremely noisy, overdriven and psychedelic, I have been addicted to effects since I started playing the bass. I taught myself to program visual basic many years ago, and this is why I got into the Axo. I had never worked with a micro processor before until I picked up and Arduino 4 years ago, the maker community has opened my eyes significantly. I put building my CNC machine on hold while I build up my Axo unit. I have relied very heavily on contributors and open source makes this very possible for anyone, I wouldn't have an Axo if it wasn't. One day I hope I have something to offer in return, but the last thing I want, is to be judge for my contribution, and I have seen how this can happen.

This is an open discussion and I am being open. The above is just to show maybe how different my goals are from everyone else or somewhat, so I will always see things in a way that suit my needs. :grin:

#22

?????????????????

You totally missed my point, again.
If you create an object that does something, it's up to you to tell if it's complete or not. Users have absolutely no role in this, but it's your responsibility (at least moral) to provide an object that creates the littlest trouble possible.
If you upload an object that is not complete, and you are aware of it, and you wish to update it in the future, you can simply let users know your intentions. This way users are prepared for an eventual update. Some patches will eventually break, but not all of them.

Also, let me clear some things for you: what i upload in the community library i can edit it. Noone else can, except maybe for Johannes or Mark. Same thing applies for me: i can't edit other users' content, unless i make a copy of it inside my personal folder.
I'm not judging you because you're not a contributor, i'm just pointing out that you have confused ideas about the community library

#23

Not confused, just have enough experience to recognize the impact of expectations .:grin:

#24

Just a little to add.. If you are correct..

and

Here is you fundamental problem, if it isn't, then I am the only one on the forum with this problem and I would then need to think very seriously about my continuation with Axoloti because Open Source is all about contributor content. Otherwise what other options would I have.

Don't fret, I'm not packing up, just explaining the point.. ! :grin:
But I might think twice about a subject heading starting with the words "Open Discussion." :stuck_out_tongue:

#25

@Gavin

Sorry, this is just gibberish. NO ONE have ever said anything like that. You are taking it too far... And creating non existing problems. If you read throigh this whole thread noone has ever said anything about objects has to follow certain standards. Again, we are talking guidelines, not rules. We talked about that it is important that atleast do some thinking BEFORE uploading.... Is the oject still in development, then it is important to tell the user, so the user can make a decision on what to do.

Ehh, wow....

I made the thread, not @Sputnki

So, you are maixing thing up @Gavin !!!

And I will call the thread EXACTLY what I want. Please....... You are welcome to contribute to the debate like everyone else in here. And your contribution will be weigthed in, like everyone else in here. I made the thread to have everyones opinion, and then Ill take out what makes most sense and use that. But you havent really contributed anything to the com.lib. yet, so it is hard to know where you are coming from!

Going to work now...

Have a good day!

#26

I think all participants in this thread have expressed their option, and their viewpoint on others opinions.

Id suggest the thread moves on, perhaps focusing on what the guidelines might be, and most importantly what has broken peoples patches... and if these are expected or if we can make software changes to make patches 'less fragile'.

I would be interested on hearing other users/contributors opinions on this topic, and also the impact object changes has had on their patching experience. Im interested if others are quietly nodding their heads or don't feel this impacts them much.

#27

@johannes and I have been discussing this, with respect to the next major dev cycle.
we view 'breaking of patches due to library updates' as a technical issue to be resolved.
for the next major release we want to 'fix it', so that regardless of library changes, a user will be able to open a previous patch, and for it to function exactly as before. so users patches will not be broken because a contributor changes the interface or behaviour of an object.

last night, we came up with an approach we think will tackle this.
its too early to give details, as some areas will still need to be thrashed out when we start the dev cycle and during implementation - this will not happen till after 1.0.12 is released.
(before you ask, no we don't have a timeline for either 1.0.12 or next dev cycle :wink: )

Im not suggesting this makes guidelines less useful, it simply means the impacts of contributors not following guidelines, would be significantly reduce.

#28

here is a detailed workaround (including video) for recovering objects if you have broken patches due to interfaces changes.
(the basic approach is to use git to retrieve previous versions, so whilst shown for mac/windows, you can do the same with the command line on linux)

#30

This sounds awesome. I could do with less, but it seems like you put some thoughts into it.

Anyway, yes, let's move on and focus on what we can do to prevent too much trouble for users.

The guidelines: as mentioned, I dont mind summing it up in a piece of text. All ready started. Ill let you know when I have some more....

#31

Sorry guys, was only using a little sarcasm to try and lighten things up a little, definitely no harm was intended.

#32

i dont want rules but recommendations about naming objects

#33

Hihi :slight_smile: Name objects after their function is a good place to start :wink: So it doesnt get too obscure.