Multitrack looper with variable modulation, loop lengths,

#1

Ok, so I haven't ordered mine yet, but will probably soon as this looks like a lot of fun even if I'm not able to make quite what I'm trying to. I'll try to explain my idea of what I'm trying to make because I'm not quite sure of the Axolotis capabilities.

I want to make a multitrack looper.. thing where I can have at least 4 (hopeful, 2 would be fantastic as well) separate loops that have some independent effects, filters and various time and pitch controls with recordable modulation of at least some or most of the controls. Each loop with mute/solo, overdubbing and such. I've looked at all of the patches that deal with pitch shifting, looping, delay etc and a lot of what I want to do seems to be already done - just a matter of combining different elements from different patches I hope.

Say I would have loop 1 play at the speed I recorded it at and record filter and or volume modulation. Loop 2 I want to have played at half speed and in reverse. For loop 3 I want to have a tempo synced delay and the filter hooked up to a tempo/step synced lfo. And for loop 4 I'm building up a wall of sound/drone by recording a sound, recording another sound on top of it (where I can control the volume level of the incoming and remaining sound) and layering up like this many times.

What I'm asking here is, is this too much, way too much or feasible to do on one Axoloti?

I'm not expecting to just simply "Frankenstein" my patch from a few existing patches and realize it will take a lot of time and work to get all this working. I'm just wondering if anything like this is even possible? Would I face the limitations of Axoloti due to the number of loops or would one or two loops like this be possible (where I can do all of the modulation and stuff described on either of the two loops?) or is this just a crazy enthusiasm fueled fever dream and it's simply impossible to do all of this at once for even one loop?

This is just a vision I have and any kind of crazy sample mangling or looping madness-box I ever manage to put together will surely be stellar.

Thanks either way and I hope I get my hands on one soon! Greetings from Finland!

Using axoloti for MIDI syncable stereo/ping pong delay?
#2

well, to me when I read the word looping, the first things that springs to mind is memory

specs:
http://www.axoloti.com/product/axoloti-core/ - 8MB SDRam

so for longer loops this means you need to consider streaming to SDCard.
currently there is streaming playback, but no optimised writing to SDCard (afaik) , and its not trivial (though not impossible) to implement.
(not sure of your coding skills, so hard to say if this is do-able for you)

then of course, realistic expectations of processing resources, some things are more processor intensive than others.

as you say, most things your asking have been done on small scale, would you be able to combine them... perhaps with some limitations, and perhaps clever programming....

imho - axoloti is one of those things, its best to get your hands on... and enjoy experimenting, and exploring to find out whats possible, explore its limits (then find a way around them :wink: ) rather than trying to clone some other hardware....but thats just me, Im sure others will disagree.

#3

Yeah, no coding skills here! So I guess it being a looper might be ruled out, but I'm gonna try to do something with recording knob modulation, samples/incoming audio, delays and a step sequencer (hopefully).

If we flat out rule out it being a looper, but a sampler (even just a sample player) with a sequencer where I can do the kind of recorded modulation I described - would that simplify things?

I get what you're saying and I'm not expecting to clone a machine or anything, just wondering about what kind of thing I can achieve with this thing, all the while keeping an open mind :smile:

I've had a lot of fun with pd doing what you said, just experimenting and ending up with something interesting and going from there, and something like the Axoloti seems like it would be a lot more fun.

#4

I guess it depends on how long the loops are likely to be - incindentally, I've just ordered a board and am planning to build just such a device (I have done it in Reaktor before, so I hope it will translate!).

Using 48kHz sampling rate, a 16-bit mono-recording will take up 96kB per second... I don't know how much RAM is available for user-applications in the Axoloti, but even if only half was available (4MB) that would give a recording time of nearly 44 seconds. I hope that actually a bit more RAM is available to patches :smile:

The last time I did a show with my "Reaktror looper", the loops were only about 10 seconds long (and I only used two; overdubbing and bouncing). Any more may be difficult to manage without a dedicated hardware interface.

(my only concern about writing loops to flash would be the time taken to do so, and the number of write-operations that a flash card will sustain before it fails)

#5

SD cards are not particularly expensive, so Id not worry about failure. (lots of instruments use them internally).
about writing loops to SD, and speed, and not introducing audio artefacts etc, yes, as I said, it would have to be done with care... just writing the data in the audio thread, is not going to work, it would need to be 'batched' and ensure the sustained write speed would be enough.

so like a few things with axoloti, is possibly not impossible, but some one will have to write a few custom objects, and perhaps a some firmware extension.

yes, because there is streaming playback off the SD card.
again, within limits... as the SD card can only be read at a certain speed, and there is only so much RAM... so will depend on number of samples, and size. (there are threads on this)

again... Id highlight... I think realistic expectations are important... Axoloti, is truly a flexible platform.
but comparing to a dedicated sampler or looper is probably unrealistic, not only is the cost different, but also the scope ... Axoloti can be a simpler looper, sequencer or synth, or smart midi router... a looper is a looper :wink:

so... if you need a fantastic looper that works out the box, buy a looper... thats whats its designed for.
If you want something that can be modified to make do what you want, or mix concepts e.g. be a looper one minute and then mutate into a granular synth... then you need something more flexible, and axoloti is the answer :smile:

as i said on first post, its almost better to play with Axoloti, and let it suggest ideas to you... explore whats possible rather than try to replicate something.

#6

You can definatly make some kind of looper. For both modulation and recording audio. But as Technobear says it is a good idea to get one and play around with it and see what you can come up with. Or try out the stuff from the community as you pointed out.

But I dont think what you are thinking about is impossible. Anyway, you could always get an extra. They are not so expensive. I've got two :smile:

For the looper:
Axoloti has 1 stereo in or 2 mono in. I think they can be used seperately, havent tried though. But since you have got 2 inputs it would make sense to make 2 "live loopers". And maybe top it up with a few samples played directly from sd card. They can be looped reversed etc.. I think that would be feasible.

#7

I like the idea of using an SD card as 'sample playback'; the output from the sample-player being another input to the looper(s).

Incidentally, here's a live recording of a twin-looper thing I made in Reaktor one day. Starts off with a sample, and then overdubbing various external sources (patchblock, OP-12) over the top. Effects (delay & reverb) are within Reaktor. This is the sort of device I'd like to use Axoloti for :smile:

https://namcom.bandcamp.com/album/live-at-hogwash-06022016

#8

ALL 8MB of sdram is available for user applications. :smile:

#9

:joy: That's great to know - thank you