Audio through and effects processing

#24

I'll add a comment for others who might be reading the start of this thread and then leaving with the view that Axoloti can't be used as an effect processor. I've had great success using Axo for FX by using it in line with my synth before going into the mixer. This avoids the level issues when using it as an FX send. Of course, I can only get one synth through it but it works great. Reverb, delays, bitcrush, sidechain compression. All these things are available and work well.

#25

Personally I would rather have valve pres as a separate unit

#26

That is one way of using Axo that the low levels might not be such a problem, keyboards don't put out very hot levels themselves often.

I would like to be able to use it on a aux send and return from a mixing desk and to do that it need to have balanced +4 db lines in and out, preferably with XLR connectors,

#27

Cheers Axoman, that's a very generous offer and I will take you up on it and some time in the future.

One of the issues I'm working on now is beat swing and would be interested in your ideas about the subject.

#28

MOD NOTE: Ive moved a bunch of posts about Organelle, to the existing topic on the subject, just to keep things 'tidy'

generally, can we keep discussion of other technologies in the Lounge, the main area of the forum is reserved for Axoloti discussions.

Ive also moved this to Hardware, as doesnt seems to have anything to do with Patching :wink:

( and before any conspiracy theories, you are free to discuss things you see as Axoloti imperfections, areas for improvements in the appropriate main Axoloti section... just keep it to discussing Axoloti)

#29

Regarding audio through / effects processing via Axoloti.

I use mine with Mackie CR1604VLZ via Send/Return and can't say it is any worse than ensoniq dp/2 or jomox t-resonator, just another flavour/color in effects palette.

I use it also in live pa context with Octatrack via CUE OUTS -> CD INPUTS in SEND/RETURN style too and did not notice anything bad with it.

And regarding abilities. I have also nord micromodular. You know - it has no memory even for decent delay line. Though it is still can be used for vast varieties of useful things. And i don't have any plans to part with mine.

Critter and Guitari - Organelle
#30

Ok, well lets look at this logically - "Beat" Swing.

I see two aspects to beat swing; the beat, and the swing. To create beat swing we therefore need an elegant way to extract the swing from a constant beat. I would do this by taking a sinewave LFO, and putting it through a rectifier, therefore creating a function that can be used as swing (it would have the correct shape for swing). This means our "swing" would be in full-force, and due to the simple yet elegant nature of this design, one only needs to lessen the amplitude of the sinewave to create less swing, as lessening amplitude creates a less pronounced function, and it is the function that is driving the tempo - therefore - the swing.

Axoman Industries - Elegant Simplicity!

#31

Could you make me an example patch to demonstrate to idea?, I don't really understand how it would work from your description.

#32

Note: The Nord Micromodular and the first generation of modulars from Clavia were quite reliable. I also still have a mircro modular. On the other hand, I bought a Modular G2 engine, even if more powerful, it had a lot of issues.

#33

As you will have gathered from my reply in the other thread, my swing idea might not work, although I honestly thought it might work or give you an idea.

Regards the problem with levels, are you aware of the seperate gain control object Axoloti has? The one were you can stick it in the patch without connection and set the hardware gain levels? If you were to use that, I can't imagine why you'd have any distortion problems. Only recently I had distortion, but then I remembered that special object. I can't remember the name of it exactly and can't check right now, but I'm pretty sure it was either under the Audio or Utility heading (most likely Audio).

#34

I'm not suggesting that the Axoloti is bad - quite contrary; it's totally rad! :slight_smile:

However, I think there might be a market for a "Maxoloti" with, say, a 1GHz ARM, and +4dB signal level, to complement the Axoloti as an added product in the range.

#35

A "Maxoloti" that could simply connect to any compliant multi-channel USB audio interface would answer a lot of these level matching problems. It could offer multiple ins and outs too but of course that would require a bump in processing power and many other things. I am sure there is probably a new version in the works, advancements in technology as they are. The main body of the work is in the software side and though porting over to new hardware is not trivial by any means, it could be done and most patches and current modules could move over too.

#36

That's an interesting idea, what interface would you use to connect to the audio interface though?

ADAT, or optical sp/dif are reasonably common on audio interfaces. but that would require a hardware revision i imagine.

#37

I would still use USB. I have an old Hercules DJ interface that is very old and it did 6 channels of audio over USB so it should not be that hard. Other I/O is more efficient at multi-channel audio of course, but USB is pretty universal.

#38

I see, using the usb host port?

That's not a bad Idea, but I think it would involve some significant extra development of the firmware and drivers for a range of devices, no small project.

#39

I imagine it would be tricky with the current hardware but if a new design is in the works, making it capable of doing this would be a HUGE improvement. Then you could really think of it like a smaller version of a KYMA which REQUIRES a user bought audio interface, and it starts at over $2000 a pop.

#40

Afaik , there is no new design Axoloti 'in the works'
The above is speculation and wishes.

Usb audio has been discussed before, it's tricky.
I'm not even sure the stm USB stack is up to isoc given some of its issue with sync flows.
Digital audio/data between boards though is something Johannes has looked at.

#41

To re-animate this thread: I've read above posts re in/out dBs, but am not sure how this applies to my setup:

I'm using the Axoloti as external FX with my Xone 43C (http://www.allen-heath.com/media/AP9967_XONE_43C_USER_GUIDE.pdf).

Now, there are two issues:

a) Having a patch with straight audio through (i.e. stereo in -> stereo out), I'm observing a drop of 6db (i.e. XFX knob full dry = original signal; full wet = signal 6db lower). Why do I get this 6db drop?

b) If I insert a gain of 6db, the full wet signal is equal to the full dry, as it should be. However, with 50% dry and 50% wet, the signal slightly drops. Not much, but audible. Where could this drop come from? Speculatively, I could think of two things: Either non-linearities in the AD/DA conversion from in to out, or a slight decrease due to the introduced latency of the Axoloti.

The mixer spec doesn't say a lot, except for the output levels for X:FX send: 0dBu (Norm) +20dBu (Max).

Besides that, it all works pretty well. I've implemented a fair amount of Live 10's new echo effect (with a spare UC-33 as controller), and I'll make it available as soon as it's finished.

Cheers!

#42

a)
Axolotis output is limited to around -12 db. after start is start saturating the signal but does not increase in volume to more than around -12 db. If you search the forum, you can find debates about this subject. Can't offer you a technical explanation for it, some one else needs to do that :wink:

And also dont hang me for the exact number cause its long time since I tested this stuff.

So why do you get the -6db drop?
I am thinking you might feed Axoloti with a signal that is louder than -12db. If you feed Axolotis in with a signal that is -6db, the output signal will be saturated to -12db, hence you loose the 6db.

Workaround:
If you got an audio interface with preamps, use them to compensate the 6db, simply + 6db on the preamp on Axolotis channel. And maybe also make sure you keep the input on Axoloti below -12db, so you dont get a saturated output signal.

#43

Okay thanks!

Since I don't notice any audio quality issues, I'll be going with a 6db gain before I return into the mixer.

For the second issue I mentioned (X:FX 50% dry / 50% wet): I'm pretty sure, the audio level dip is induced by the latency, since the output also sounds colored / phased. My workaround is to use only X:FX full down and full up, and then handle dry/wet within my patch.

Work in progress is now available at https://github.com/arisona/axoloti_rmx ... feel free to use it. It contains quite a bit of C++ code, since I prefer coding to patching (at the "micro level").

Comments are welcome!